The Sincerest Form of Imitation (not a story)

[ProchazkaJBG]

I've kept things civil. Thrown no mud, called no names, unless you count referring to A.I. content as what a teeming mass of algorithms shits out after you put in your prompt.

This whole thing started because someone did a Google Gemini recreation of one of my works, and the point I was trying to make in the original post was that the scene was taken out of context - intended for horror, but remade mostly for titillation. Somehow or other I've had to since clarify my stance on A.I. content in general (long in a short: I don't think it's art), and have been referred to as "way too emotional" over this issue, among other things.

I don't know what else I can even contribute to this that'll mean anything, so I'll just leave it at this. I don't want A.I. trained on my content, I don't want A.I. "recreations" of my content and I don't want to see this forum or the Wiki flooded by the regurgitated offal that a bunch of algorithms churned out based on a bunch of prompts that probably included the phrase "stable diffusion" somewhere in them. The people - the HUMAN BEINGS - who write, and compose, and draw, and paint and use 3D modeling programs to create for this forum and the wiki are, truly, artists. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can learn to use the tools that those people use, and with experience and practice become an artist of their own merit.

Adding A.I.-created content to the forum isn't adding art, it's opening the floodgates of a sewage drain to drown us all in shit. Content made by actual talented HUMAN BEINGS will be lost to a slurry of slop, A.I. hallucinations and garbage "in the style of" so many others.

You want to call me a gatekeeper? I'll wear the badge with pride, because you're damn right I'm a gatekeeper. You want to call me overly emotional? Maybe it's because I prefer human talent as opposed to a bunch of soulless algorithms. You want to call me a hypocrite? Go look up the definition of the word and get back to me.

Art is made by PEOPLE, using TALENT, IMAGINATION and CREATIVITY. Algorithms lack all three of those attributes, and therefore algorithms are not, will not and will never be artists. They're content engines, cranking out mass-produced shit day-in, day -out. And that's before we get to the legal and ethical debates.

Anyway. I support art made by HUMAN ARTISTS, not some rando entering a prompt. Fembot Central needs to celebrate and promote its HUMAN ARTISTS, not the ocean of swill churned out by LLMs and other such soulless assembly lines.

None of my posts were directed at your request to not have your works used without permission. That is a completely rational demand and fully within your rights as the creator

[AmosBurton7]

Hit me up if they haven't banned you yet - [email protected]

I tried to PM you but it says you can't get PM's. A few of us are looking into creating a new site...

[fection]

I definitely also don't want stories I've written or animated (or scenes within them) re-interpreted by other people or algorithms - especially without permission.

But I AM definitely interested in having new content that speaks to my very specific flavour of ASFR.
For me, also, it doesn't have to be about art - it's more about comedy. So if video can be more easily produced that implements a script that includes humour, irony and a non-self-aware fembot malfunctioning, the only reservation I have is: which other artists is the algorithm stealing from?

Sorry if this seems a bit muddled, but it seemed like the distinction between Fembot Central artists retaining control of their content was being slightly conflated with the issue of poor-quality AI 'slop'. Surely the moral argument is separate from the quality of the output.

If the prompts are specific enough and can tick all my (admittedly very specific) boxes the only remaining issue I can see, for NEW content, is the broader 'data trawling' of LLMs generally.

So I'm in two minds, but think it's a shame the ease with which new, quality content could be created is not being embraced.

Is there a thread here where the rationale is explained? I genuinely probably just missed it.

[NatalieBayer]

I'm not sure there is one singular post that explains absolutely everything, and I am hesitant to put one together simply because I know that would spark a torrent of folks, both for and agaisnt the ruling, to start arguments. IF we could keep things civil that would be one thing, but that has, unfortunately, proven to be a struggle on the forums (and the greater internet as a whole.)

But, for the sake of answering the question, here's some cliff notes.

* Flooding: This is probably the greatest worry in the short term. AI content is quick and easy to make and we worry that there would be a lot of it posted in rapid succession, making it difficult to police the content.

* Policing: People have and likely still would post content that appears to violate any number of rules. Underage content is a legitimate issue that we have run into. And yes, AI generated images arent real people, but that doesnt mean that it doesnt generate images that appear to have underage subjects. It's a slippery slope.

* Content regulation: In most countries, there arent any good laws regarding the regulation of AI content. Will there be in the future? Maybe, and if there is we dont have the time or manpower to hunt down every AI generated image or story and make sure it complies with whatever that legislation might be. Once that kind of regulation is in place, we will revisit the rules here.

* Ethics: There is a lot of debate on this one. Obviously artists and writers have had their content scraped without permission and compensation, which is already just kind of shitty, on top of that real human beings need to view and label that content in order for an LLM or image generator to know what to do with it. Those people are severely underpaid and over worked to the point that they are basically working in an image sorting sweatshop. Because of that, and a number of other fairly widespread reasons, we dont feel comfortable allowing unethically made content here.

What this ISN'T about:
* The admin team dont hate AI content. Most of us use it for personal reasons and projects.
* Gate keeping - We don't think that anyone who makes AI content "isnt a real artist". We just dont allow the content here.
* Personal vendettas and conspiracy: None of the admin team conspire to "take down" anyone who has expressed a pro-AI stance. Again, most of us are pretty Pro-AI as long as its used properly.

At the end of the day, we're not allowing AI content because of a lot of reasons. We are always up for reconsidering this stance, should something in the legal and societal arena change. But so far that hasn't happened. We tend to shut down AI centered debates pretty aggressively simply because they quickly devolve into tempers and insults. If they can remain civil, then we welcome the debate as there are good points and use cases to be made on both sides. We want to encourage the community to keep talking about this, because it isnt going away, and we know that. But for now, its something you can use personally, and post on other places, just not here.

thank you for coming to my TED talk.

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A thoughtful and considerate answer there from NathalieBayer. I appreciate that.

Given it has brought Fection out with a thoughtful reply I feel I must also. I am with Fection, and Xeren for that matter, but I wanted to say something different.
I am sad we cannot find a way to be more inclusive and dismayed at that exchanges between members of late.

ASFR has always been the broadest church that has provided a home for all the many varied ideas and methods we encompass. And by goodness those ideas and methods have evolved over the years. If any two of us have the exact same likes on either what or how our kinks are expressed I'd be amazed. Yet it has always been a group where (nearly) everything was accepted. Preferences were exercised by choice of what was consumed, not limited by what was shared.

For me, AI is about the rapid development of ideas and exploration of the imagination. I have been able to evolve my own interests exponential in the last six months which frankly I could never have done with my efforts at Photoshop. I'm inspired seeing the things other are doing, and excited when people do take it beyond to the next level. I've seen things I thought impossible and none of it has made my interest in other forms and formats any less.

Inevitably perhaps, however much I regret the day coming, maybe it is time that our focal point grow beyond a singular home at Fembot Central, but let us do what we can to not make it a schism that sets us against each other.
That this group should divide down this subject, of all subjects, is beyond me, and in a golden age as well.

The admins have made their policy clear, repeatedly, and it isn't going to change any time soon. However much I find it obtuse, I think has to be heard, respected respectfully, and we should collectively find another answer.

For those who want to explore AI content there are other forums. Those on Discord are my hangout. Maybe a new sisterbot forum is needed if it isn't there already, but whatever the specifics, why don't we just grow and link our ASFR network out positively.
Here for this, there for that, and love thy shared protocols. A space in the matrix for us all.

That's my bit said. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the AI.

[AmosBurton7]

A thoughtful and considerate answer there from NathalieBayer. I appreciate that.

Given it has brought Fection out with a thoughtful reply I feel I must also. I am with Fection, and Xeren for that matter, but I wanted to say something different.
I am sad we cannot find a way to be more inclusive and dismayed at that exchanges between members of late.

ASFR has always been the broadest church that has provided a home for all the many varied ideas and methods we encompass. And by goodness those ideas and methods have evolved over the years. If any two of us have the exact same likes on either what or how our kinks are expressed I'd be amazed. Yet it has always been a group where (nearly) everything was accepted. Preferences were exercised by choice of what was consumed, not limited by what was shared.

For me, AI is about the rapid development of ideas and exploration of the imagination. I have been able to evolve my own interests exponential in the last six months which frankly I could never have done with my efforts at Photoshop. I'm inspired seeing the things other are doing, and excited when people do take it beyond to the next level. I've seen things I thought impossible and none of it has made my interest in other forms and formats any less.

Inevitably perhaps, however much I regret the day coming, maybe it is time that our focal point grow beyond a singular home at Fembot Central, but let us do what we can to not make it a schism that sets us against each other.
That this group should divide down this subject, of all subjects, is beyond me, and in a golden age as well.

The admins have made their policy clear, repeatedly, and it isn't going to change any time soon. However much I find it obtuse, I think has to be heard, respected respectfully, and we should collectively find another answer.

For those who want to explore AI content there are other forums. Those on Discord are my hangout. Maybe a new sisterbot forum is needed if it isn't there already, but whatever the specifics, why don't we just grow and link our ASFR network out positively.
Here for this, there for that, and love thy shared protocols. A space in the matrix for us all.

That's my bit said. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the AI.

Xeran, a 25+ year contributor to this and other sites, isn't even allowed to post LINKS to his work here. Neither are MANY other long time members here who are finally getting into the creation side after years of seeing other peoples stuff featured here. Not only can these members of the community not post art, stories, or vids, but they can't even provide LINKS to existing other sites for those here who wouldn't mind some new and different takes on the genre. THAT is the definition of "Gatekeeping".

[AmosBurton7]

[andoroido]

If 10 years from now an actual fembot made art, would she be allowed to post it here?

Speculation is a fun part of our sci-fi fetish.

Possible answer: If fembots become real enough to be posting art, we won't care much what happens here anyway.

However, don't we all kind of hope that we would be among the first to be contacted to do the Beta testing of these fembots?

[Lithorien]

I removed the one story I wrote from the wiki once AI became a thing and it was apparent that people here were using AI and supportive of it scraping people's works for "training".

That the administrative staff here and on the wiki are disallowing it is the only reason that I, and many others, remain. We want to see works created by human beings, showing their skill and passion for their craft. We don't want to see a flood of "content" that is just generated from stolen works, made with a machine that is designed intentionally to shut down and displace humans.

The world is beautiful when people are allowed to create - AI takes that beauty and destroys it. And to see such hate directed towards people who want to preserve that beauty and protect it from the soulless, banal AI is heartbreaking.

Thank you to the staff standing against this AI plague. It is very genuinely appreciated.

[Extyr]

A few of us are looking into creating a new site...

Oh, I'd be interested too. This place has been on a steady downward trajectory since robotman left.

Seeing so many luddites talking points on what's essentially a technological fetish site is mind-boggling. It's all so ironic.

[NatalieBayer]

Can we please keep the name calling out of these discussions.